Politics

Veep Debate Open Stream

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Here’s MSNBC’s live feed…

Add your voice in the comments section below. I may start up another post if we have a ton of comments.

Some advice. Since there’s video embedded here, I’d open this post in an additional tab too so you can comment quickly and you won’t have to start up the video again. Obviously that’s if you’re watching it in the post.

And away we go…

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    First! :p

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Vice Presidential Debate

    How many times will Joe Biden go over the time limit?
    Over 3 -130
    Under 3 -110

    How many times will Sarah Palin say “In what respect” when asked a question?
    Over 2 -125
    Under 2 -115

    Will Sarah Palin refer to herself as a Hockey Mom?
    Yes Even
    No -140

    How many times will the candidates begin a response with “That’s a great question”?
    Over 3 -120
    Under 3 -120

    http://www.lines-maker.com/2008/09/sportsbook-posts-odds-for-presidential.html

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Oh…David Brooks just said that Palin needed to put together full paragraphs tonight. Ouch!

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    You have to ask yourself…why is there so much attention being put on this debate? It isn’t because of Biden. If Romney had been McCain’s VP, we wouldn’t care.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Biden is hitting the points of Obama…boom, boom, boom, boom.

    First mention of the middle class.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    JG… Before McCain picked her, I’d hardly heard of her.

    OMFG… Is Biden parroting the exact same thing Obama said a week ago??? I swear he is!

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Palin looking directly into the camera… hardcore.

    Somebody stop her. She was racing. I’m exhausted just listening to her.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Good first answer by Palin. And she’s looking into the camera. Biden isn’t.

    But Biden hits back with the “fundamentals” line.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Oh! She said maverick!

    Drink!

  • Noc

    palin is doing ok.

    shaky

    but ok

    drat

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    “Darn right!!”

    Wait… I thought the GOP was about personal responsiblity?

    Hockey Mom #1–drink your shot!!

  • Noc

    nice keep the focus on McCain.

    good strategy Biden.

    Don’t get lured in.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Palin is trying to connect with Americans. Biden is on the attack against McCain and hoisting Obama.

    What’s better?

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Lots of talk about “John” and occasionally “Barack”… but they’re not yet talking about themselves, or each other.

    Gas tank… good anecdote.

    “Darn right!”

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    I told you guys. She ain’t a dummy.

    But she just repeated the $42,000 tax lie.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    I was waiting for the first big lie. Palin just went there.

  • Noc

    Palin’s anchor skills are coming through nicely.

    she speaks directly into the camera and to the audience.

    by far the best, between the four.

    PALIN IS NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION!!!

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Haha…Palin just said, “I may not answer your questions.”

    Umm…why not?

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    And she increased sales taxes in Wasilla.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Jab! Jab!! Jab!!!

    “She did not answer!”

    OOOOHHHHHH!!! There it is!!!

    “I’m not here to debate!!! I’m here to give a speech!

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Yeah, Gwen Ifill is in the tank…sure…

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Biden is coming off as extremely persuasive.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    There’s the strategy! She’s not going to debate… she’s going to use the time to talk to the camera, “reach out to America.”

    This is weird.

  • Noc

    Middle class focus working for Biden.

    It works for him to be fired up and angry at McCain-Bush. I think that will connect

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Biden is right about how badly McCain’s health care plan would screw over the typical American. That $5000 amount does not cover a good family policy.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Palin again isn’t answering the question Ifill asked, but she’s getting her talking points in.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Bridge To Nowhere!!

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Notable line: “I call that the ultimate Bridge to Nowhere.”

    Biden really made a great case against McCain’s health care plan and a nice dig at Palin.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    That was a good explanation of the idiocy of the McCain plan.

  • Noc

    ooh yeah Gwen Ifill trying to get candidates to answer questions.

    Biden says McCain healthcare plan is ultimate bridge to nowhere. ouch.

    aaaah please pronounce characterize correctly!!!

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Biden is beginning to talk to the camera more, as well. In fact, he seems to be connecting with Ifill, the auditorium, Palin, and the camera.

    Okay, new game: Take a shot every time Palin changes the subject.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    I really don’t think Palin is helping herself with all this folksy talk. I don’t think people will want to hear that for 4 years.

    But good point about the energy plan.

    But this line, “How long have I been at this? 5 weeks?”

    Ouch.

  • Noc

    wait for it….”THANKS BUT NO THANKS”

    oh wait she almost said it but did not.

    Palin Palin Palin. dodged the questions about what will have to be cut.

    she is starting to show herself as a lightweight. wonder if ppl will pick up on it.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Please tell me that Palin and the McCain campaign didn’t really expect us to buy this.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Carack-trize

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Using Palin’s windfall profits tax break against her.

    That’s Biden for you folks.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Biden doesn’t dare criticize on the bankruptcy issue too much. He was on the wrong side of that one.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Palin: “The Main Streeters like me.”

    Will Main Street think Palin is like them?

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    JG: On the Main Street where the households average $1.2 million in assets.

    Energy AGAIN?!?!?

  • Noc

    Palin is not bad. Seems she’s holding her own.

    oops.
    “toxic mess on Mainstreet affecting Wall Street” mistake for Palin.

    Biden has got his numbers down. He uses it to contrast his knowledge w/ Palin’s generalities. It ‘sounds’ like he knows what he is talking about.

    I think ppl do not care about ‘boring’ w/ this economic mess.

    okaaaaay. Palin dancing around question againnnnnn.

    she could get away w/ it if the couric thing did not happen

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Plain: “East Coast Politicians” in reference to Biden. Ouch. Will he take the bait?

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    I wonder if her inability to stick to the current subject will hurt her with some viewers? It’s certainly irritating me.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Palin’s global warming answer starting to tread into Couric territory…

    Okay, she’s back on track…whew! White knuckle time for conservatives everywhere.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Oh my God, she’s blowing this one bad. If you don’t discuss the cause of warming you can’t address the problem.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Biden has a nice deadpan look. “Yep… you go right ahead. Let me know if you need some more rope.”

    Loved that line from Ifell: “In this next section, I’m happy to talk to you about energy…”

    Is Biden’s “man-made” over the top?

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Biden hammers McCain on energy, but he mentioned clean coal. Wonder if Palin will attack his gaffe last week?

  • Noc

    In another time, another situation, Palin may have done better.

    The essence of this debate is the backdrop that it is happening against:

    1. Financial disaster

    This makes boring technical facts comforting. It shows competence.
    This makes skirting questions and talking about emotional values unsettling.

  • Noc

    Energy focus is good for Palin.

    She actually sounds competent.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    OUCH!!! Did he really just put same-sex rights in the Constitution???

    Granted, I have nothing against that, but it’s not in the Constitution… is it?

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    But McCain has supported supposed marriage protection amendments that do eliminate many rights for gays.

  • Noc

    hmmm…..

    Palin is doing pretty well. these value questions favor her.

    Biden is waffling a bit…

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Agreement on no gay marriage.

    Ugh.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Here we go, folks… foreign policy

    How many times will she say “Russia?”

    “Putin?”

  • zachb

    whoa. good answer on iraq… who is this woman?

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    As sad as I and many others find it to say that you support gay marriage in this country is still politically toxic. Too damn bad but we’re still years away from real tolerance.

  • Noc

    oooh “white flag of surrender” Palin on the attack.

    this is make or break time for her. she just went all in

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    I think she just lost every anti-war independent who might have been wavering. White flag of surrender? BS!!!

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    So, what so far has been Palin’s strongest points? I think energy and Iraq. She also just got Biden on his comment last year that Obama wasn’t ready to be CiC.

  • Noc

    yeah she got some good digs in in the iraq exchange.

    biden is now playing defense.

    while i don’t think this is what mccain needs, so far, Palin is doing very well considering.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    How is “Let’s stay in Iraq forever.” strong for the Republicans with today’s public opinion about the war?

  • http://centristcoalition.com/blog/ kranky kritter

    Starting at what have been 15 minutes after the start, I listened to about 15minutes and then I had to stop. Cringeworthy. Palin is a complete and utter train wreck. Everyone who has been saying she’s out of her league (while I was counseling to give her a fair shot in this debate) have in my mind been proven 100% correct.

    She rambles, she’s incoherent, she repeats buzzwords in sentences that basically make almost no sense or say nothing meaningful. In my opinion, this election is OVER.

    I’m embarrassed for this poor woman. She’s practically dissociating onstage in front of the country.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Biden is starting to take her apart. She’s ALL talking points and no actual substance.

  • Noc

    Palin trying hard to get the jewish vote.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Palin trying hard to get the jewish vote.

    Haha, unlikely.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Maverick!

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Not the maverick line again!

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    I think Biden just said George Bush five times in 10 seconds.

    Drink!

  • zachb

    wait a minute– nukes are dangerous…?

  • http://sporkmonger.com/ Bob Aman

    Nuke-u-ler! Four more years of nuke-u-ler!

    Argh.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    The surge strategy from Iraq has nothing even approaching a good chance of working in the radically different environment of Afghanistan. The general Biden is citing is correct.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Haha, Biden keeps bumping his mic.

  • Split-Party Household

    Biden just said McCain voted against Republicans. Let me say it again, Biden just said McCain voted against Republicans

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Biden just said McCain voted against Republicans. Let me say it again, Biden just said McCain voted against Republicans

    Haha…

    Let me say that again!

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Biden changed his mind on the Iraq war way before this campaign. But she keeps saying that he’s done things because of it.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    From Ambinder…

    10:02: Palin gets the name of the commander general in Afghanistan wrong: he’s McKiernan, not McClellan. She does not know who he is, clearly.

    Woops!

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Here we go…more canned talking points from Palin. This is getting tiring.

  • Noc

    Palin is pissing Biden off.

    its working!!!

    but she is coming off as a lightweight.

    oooh heartbeat away question.
    niiice

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    What has John McCain ever done to prove that he knows how to win a war? He was a POW in a war we didn’t win. Where does that become knowing how to win a war?

  • Split-Party Household

    Side question…Where did the nickname “Diamond Joe” come from?

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    The emotional sense I’m getting from this debate.

    Biden is Passionate.

    Palin is Snarky.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Mavericks!!

  • http://sporkmonger.com/ Bob Aman

    The M-word again. Can we stop calling ourselves Mavericks, PLEASE?!?

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Side question…Where did the nickname “Diamond Joe” come from?

    I don’t know. The first time I hear it was when Nick Ragone used it a week ago.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    “Her reward is in heaven.”

    WTF?

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Wasilla, an average everyday town where every man, woman and child gets a hefty check from the state every year and owes no property or income taxes. Alaska, a state that doesn’t face any of the typical budgetary challenges of other states.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Holy crap!!! I think Palin just NAILED the diplomacy question!!

  • http://sporkmonger.com/ Bob Aman

    Her reward is in heaven.

    Yeah, that quip was bizarre. And I say that as a pretty devout Christian.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Whoa! There’s a Couric moment.

    Is she reading this from her notes?

    Rambling…

  • http://sporkmonger.com/ Bob Aman

    Holy crap!!! I think Palin just NAILED the diplomacy question!!

    Which diplomacy question?

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    They haven’t been a team. They aren’t reformers.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    She really doesn’t sound like she sincerely believes what she’s saying.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    There she goes again, to borrow the line she borrowed.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Wow. Did Biden just choke up there?

    That was a powerful moment.

    Meanwhile, Palin is running away from Bush incredibly fast…

    And she just said maverick…again.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Biden just dressed down Palin repeating the maverick line and it was effective.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Yes, he did. And anyone who wants to hold that against him can only be described in language you wouldn’t appreciate on here, Justin.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    You’re right Jim. On both accounts. :-)

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    When she makes some of these claims about her record in Alaska do you wonder what tomorrow’s papers in Alaska will be saying about this debate?

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    She doesn’t do herself any favors by bringing up the interviews.

    Her closing statement is WEIRD! Vote for John McCain or you won’t be free?

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    When she makes some of these claims about her record in Alaska do you wonder what tomorrow’s papers in Alaska will be saying about this debate?

    Well, if history is any indicator, I’m pretty sure I know. But we’ll see.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Yeah, her closing statement was strange and another example of her spouting nonsense.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    And we’re done.

    What did everybody think?

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    At least she didn’t have a problem looking at Biden as she shook his hand.

  • Noc

    Biden had some great moments.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Mark Shields describes her as “relentlessly colloquial”.

  • Split-Party Household

    Honestly, I would be more likely to consider the Democratic ticket if Biden was on the top. I don’t agree with his policies, but I do think he’s solid. Of all 4, he sounded most presidential. He was very good tonight but Palin was not bad either. Good debate overall.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Everybody’s talking about her colloquial talk…specifically David Brooks.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    How much will her constantly changing the subject from the actual current question hurt her? Or will it?

  • Joshua

    Palin got off to a good start on her 2012 presidential campaign. 😉

    Alas, she’s not going to be of much more help to McCain in this campaign; the dynamic has just shifted too much away from her strong suits.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    I thought it was CRAZY how much Palin bashed Bush. Amazing, but they’re tied to him regardless of whether they like it or not.

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden#Family_and_early_political_career

    Biden lost his first wife and a daughter in a car accident. He eventually remarried, his second wife is a teacher.

    I think Palin accidentally put his current wife’s profession with his first wife.

    That was the “reward in heaven” comment, I think.

    Rachel Maddow thinks Palin’s personality worked against her–too folksy, gimmicky, cartoonish.

    Any agreement to that?

  • http://marciaford.blogspot.com Agnostick

    Pat Buchanan is gushing over Palin, in every sense.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    I think Palin accidentally put his current wife’s profession with his first wife.

    That was the “reward in heaven” comment, I think.

    Yeah, that was a HUGE gaffe. Yikes.

    Rachel Maddow thinks Palin’s personality worked against her–too folksy, gimmicky, cartoonish.

    Any agreement to that?

    I do think it works against her, but that’s just me.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    It came across as a mask several times. I couldn’t help but think “Tina Fey is subbing for the real Palin tonight.”.

  • Split-Party Household

    “Reward in Heaven” means that while she does not make much money as a teacher at a thankless job, her good works as a teacher will be rewarded in heaven. Nothing to do with actually dying.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Haha, Drudge has Palin winning by 75% on his poll.

    You don’t say!

  • BBQ

    What would Maddow know about being folksy?

    I live in southeast Missouri, where folks still call it Missour “ah”. It plays pretty well down here.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    Personally I just didn’t care for the number of times that she insisted on ignoring the question posed by the moderator.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    “Reward in Heaven” means that while she does not make much money as a teacher at a thankless job, her good works as a teacher will be rewarded in heaven. Nothing to do with actually dying.

    Ahhh, fair enough. Still, it’s a bit of an “inside” comment. Not her best moment.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    BBQ,

    OTOH, lots of people there still love Bush and it’s a minority view in most places.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Republican strategist on ABC says Biden really connected with the middle class.

    Also, CBS “dialers” had really bad numbers for Palin. About a 3rd of them thought she won, but that means 2/3rds didn’t.

    Still, we’ll see.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    John Harris from Politico notes the non-answers as well and that it means that if you were “scoring” the debate as these things are normally done for non-political debates she would lose because of it.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Honestly, as is the case usually with the VP debate, I don’t think this will move the needle at all. Biden already appealed to the Republican base and Biden connected with the middle class.

  • BBQ

    Not as much as you would except to be honest. But yeah it’s mostly GOP country.

    It’s a base appeal no doubt, but I doubt it hurts with that many indies. I mean I know it wouldn’t play in my hometown of Madison. But that’s not exactly an independent or even moderate town.

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    I think it might tilt some more independents away from McCain but not that much.

  • http://centristcoalition.com/blog/ kranky kritter

    At this point I’m shocked by how much I am at variance with what the TV and some other folks are saying about Palin. She was just wretched for many stretches.

    Folks here know how loud I’ve been about maintaining that Palin deserved a full and fair vetting in this debate. I’ve generally leaned a hair towards being pro-Palin.

    Well, I am now officially terrified by the idea that Sara Palin could be our President if McCain won and then say had a stroke. She’s totally not ready for prime time. Incoherent. Squeaky. Whiny. Repetitive.Slogany. Lacking substance and sophistication. Folksy past all bounds of corniness. Phony. Forced.

    Did I leave anything out?

  • http://therottenlittlegirls.com/ Dollface

    “I really don’t think Palin is helping herself with all this folksy talk. I don’t think people will want to hear that for 4 years.”

    I can’t agree more. Seriously, I couldn’t stand listening to her speak for that long. I also think she really ate up a lot of time with empty statements.

    A win for Biden.

  • J. Harden

    Weird – I was driving homing and listening to the debate of the radio and I thought she got her ass handed to her in almost every exchange. Then I get home and turn on the tv and read the comments here and its all about how great her folksiness was and how it connected to the folks. Wierd.

    Don’t get me wrong…I’ll definitely be voting for McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden are total socialists, but I’m just saying…

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    She did dodge a hell of a lot of questions, which I think will be one of the stories tomorrow.

    Also, there was a moment where she ALMOST lost it with her followup on her qualifications for the VP and what she would do. Watch for that tomorrow. She was really fumbling there.

  • DaveX

    Biden was courteous, presidential, knowledgeable, and direct. Palin was scary and weird, and does not seem smart enough to be a 2nd grade teacher let alone a VP of the USA. She looked shaky and scared, and her mouth keeps moving with words coming out that just don’t go together. It’s really bizarre. I asked my son if he could imagine her as president. “Why would she ever be president,” he asked.

  • Split-Party Household

    @Kranky: How were you okay with Palin before this debate and against her now? While she was not perfect by any means tonight, she was far better than she has been this last week. Her performance in this debate may not have helped her or McCain, but in no way did it hurt her.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    Here’s the thing…at this point she needed to knock it out of the park to help McCain. She didn’t. She merely passed a pass/fail test. It wasn’t enough for her to not suck.

    32 days left tomorrow.

  • http://www.donklephant.com Justin Gardner

    This from the non-partisan Taegan Goddard:

    Biden beat all expectations and handily won this debate.

    Well, there ya go.

  • DaveX

    I don’t think she passed any test, except that she can stand and talk incoherently for 90 minutes. If that’s the bar we’re using for political readiness, we need to raise the bar

  • http://itsthe21stcenturystupid.wordpress.com/ Jim S

    SPH,

    She either dodged or absolutely refused to answer multiple questions. She actually stated that she might not answer some questions. It sounded like a warning of upcoming ignorance.